These Dark Dark Days of Death

In todays episode I'll unpack the poetry of Colorado based poet Mike Stuller. We look back at our collaboration in 2011, medicinal marijuana which he uses to manage brain trauma, his current body of work and the politicking behind covid 19 both in the US and South Africa.

Art Lexica is a podcast where we talk art and art processes.

Transcript

Wesley: [00:00:00] Hey, greetings everybody Wesley Pepper here, and you're tuned to my podcast wesley peppers art Lexica, which is brought to you by spudcaster and baobulb. Yeah, I think there are many new listeners and returning listeners. Welcome everybody. Uh, we have. Just to start off with last week’s episode, thanks to Gen for coming through, I had lots of fun talking to her was really cool.

[00:00:30] Having a guest, uh, having a live guests was really fun. Um, I hope I'm having more of that. The irony is, is that we are under this new lockdown and anyway, uh, yeah, she was a lot of fun to be able to check out her work at genn art, uh, 25 or just genn art on all social media platforms. Um, I, and moving on to today, um, I'm talking.

[00:00:54] I've got a really interesting, guest today. Uh, I'm talking to Mike Stuller all the way through Pueblo, Colorado in the USA. Um, yeah, I know him for quite a while now. We've done a, uh, a very interesting collaboration in 2011. Um, he's a poet, uh, Mike’s a poet. And, um, he writes these really interesting poems and I know over time he's poetry took a really dark turn and then we'll definitely touch on that.

[00:01:22] And I know he's also dealing with, um, he's got some mental question. I honestly, I can't remember exactly what it was, but we'll talk about it. And I know that's impacted he's writing and while he's he's his livelihood in general, so we'll touch on it. Uh, but on that, and I'm talking about is, um, how is, uh, Mike’s writing as, um, how it has grown and because he's got some new stuff you'll, um, hopefully you'll be reciting some of that.

[00:01:48] I hope so. Um, I hope he's not too shy. Um, so yeah, I hope you guys look forward to that. Um, remember the, uh, Our giveaways is still up for grabs. So it's just like comment or, um, like comment subscribe to this episode and you can win yourself an original artwork. And, um, I'll talk to you guys at the end of the

[00:02:10] At the end of all of this with regards to the future episodes and everything. So yeah, I hope you guys stay tuned and enjoy today's episode 

[00:02:22] Spudcaster: [00:02:22] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcasts your life with baobulb.org.

[00:02:36] Wesley: [00:02:36] Come on. There you go. Okay. Here we go. Uh, Mike Stuller all the way from Pueblo, Colorado, uh, there all the way America, the U S. Uh, I know it's like noon your side. How you doing my brother? 

[00:02:54] Mike: [00:02:54] I'm good, Wes. How are you? 

[00:02:57] Wesley: [00:02:57] Um, yeah, I mean, like being an African there’s never a straight answer, like I should just tell you I’m doing okay.

[00:03:05] I'm doing okay but, but I'm doing this, but I've been productive. I'm in good spirits. You know, things are moving. Um, I'm pretty good, man. So yeah, man, I just jumped right into it then. So, uh, could you give us, uh, give us a brief about like your background and I know you were theater practitioner, you retired, um, and, uh, but just give us a background in you, uh, what you did in theater background.

[00:03:35] Mike: [00:03:35] So I started, I started in theater when I was nine years old. And performed on and off through school and college and then toured until I was 24. And, um, yeah, then I suffered burnout. I didn't go the route that I should have to become more of a professional with it. And when I went the burnout route, um,

[00:04:12] And started writing when I was 15 more, more poetry, um, and, and dabbled in it and dabbled in it in my twenties and, and wrote songs. And then when I, I hit my thirties, I met, uh, a guy by the name of Phil Dearborn. And. He kind of took me under his wing. He had been writing and he was in his, oh goodness. He was probably in his late sixties at the time.

[00:04:49] And I felt like I was a kindergartener who, uh, writing, uh, when I read his stuff. And, um, it just took me to a different level. And in my writing. And, and so I've just kind of dabbled on and off with it. Um, since then. 

[00:05:14] Wesley: [00:05:14] Yeah. Yeah. A little bit about your influences, man. Um, besides your mentor

[00:05:29] and so forth.

[00:05:35] Mike: [00:05:35] Uh, writing wise, um, poetry wise, uh, Edgar Allen Poe. Maya Angelou, uh, literary wise people like, uh, John Irving, Steven Kane. Um, I, I read a lot of. Okay, now I draw a blank I should have written it all down.

[00:06:14] Wesley: [00:06:14] Um, it’s all good its just to give my listeners like perspective on like where your writings coming from you know

[00:06:20] I always find that artists influences really shape the narrative.

[00:06:26] Pretty much more I would say the backbone of the example, like myself, like Jean-Michel Basquiat was a huge influence in my work, especially, um, especially in my twenties and my thirties. Yeah. So I know a lot of artists, you know, um, 

[00:06:51] Mike: [00:06:51] and it also comes from songwriters that, you know, and I, as I listened to music.

[00:06:59] Yeah, 

[00:06:59] Wesley: [00:06:59] yeah, yeah.

[00:07:03] Mike: [00:07:03] Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, you know, the poets that perform the singer songwriters. Uh, I love listening to them. Uh, and I find that I'll cure a lot of ideas from things that they’e been learning. Um,

[00:07:21] Yeah. 

[00:07:22] Wesley: [00:07:22] Yeah. It's interesting. You mentioned both Springsteen and it's interesting because they were also both revolutionary, really strong, um, did that sort of side.

[00:07:38] Um, you know, like Springsteen and Dylan’s lyrics were also pretty hardcore they wrote about the social issues did that, um, did that side appeal to you?

[00:07:50] Mike: [00:07:50] absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, you know, it just, it moves me. Um, you know, when, when songs, when songs catch, catch, you like that, um, And, and I, I know that you've, you've read a lot of my previous work and you, you see things that I've, I've posted and you know, how, how music is, is so very much a part of my life.

[00:08:18] And, and so, um, when a song catches you and lyrically and musically, you know, but, but more so lyrically when a.

[00:08:34] That just cure something, you know, from inside, uh, you know, it's like, wow, how did they experienced that exact same thing that I did. And I love to be able to be able to relate that and ha have somebody experienced that in my writing as well. Yeah. 

[00:08:57] Wesley: [00:08:57] Yeah, I can. I use it as a, almost as a drug, so to speak.

[00:09:07] I’m always listening to it. I'm always plugged into something and I'm, I'm always. Yeah. Like, um, I'm also very influenced by a really good, really strong lyrics because I know that

[00:09:23] yeah. Um, it resonates, it resonates big actually. So that's actually quite interesting because, um, As I was telling my listeners in the, in the intro I think we met

[00:09:37] was probably no, it was probably 2011. And, um, at that time, um, funny enough, I'll just, I'll just give you some perspective on my side. Um, and that collaboration that we did, um, at that site at, um, at that time

[00:09:57] I was publishing for the longest time I just left it, um, and I was sort of finding a very weird part of  my life because for a few months I didn’t really know what direction I must take

[00:10:09] uh, yeah. So forth and so forth. And, um, I remember us chatting and you send me your work and I was really really enjoying it man, 

[00:10:19] I sort of like, I always interpret poetry visually for whatever reason, I always look for very strong metaphors and

[00:10:28] to me, my mind sort of blows, because like, with, with, uh, with each line, I sort of. You know, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm, I'm getting a sense of the things that my mind thinks visually and so on and so on and I really connected with your work at the time and um

[00:10:44] just for my listeners we did, I think three or four mixed media pieces. You know, actually I've actually copied that poem. I actually don't have it in front of me, but I remember the, but I remember the work very well and I remember it had eventually ended up in a, we had a group show in Melville somewhere,

[00:11:06] so it's been, it's been, it's been quite. And, um, I really enjoyed your writing, and also your blog from time to time over the years and, um, and I sort of get that. So, um, yeah, man. So tell me. Well, my listeners 2011,

[00:11:33] what was influencing you? And so on. 

[00:11:41] Mike: [00:11:41] So a while ago it was, it was, I was, uh, I was an entirely different person back then too. I was, I was writing, I was, I was writing. I was writing. I was really productive during that time. Um,

[00:12:01] I, oddly enough, uh, at that time had just become acquaintance, um, with a band from your region. Uh, the Parlotones.

[00:12:18] Yeah, I believe it or not. I'm still in touch with those guys. Uh, I isn't that crazy after all these years.

[00:12:30] Well, we get old.

[00:12:37] Yeah, no kidding. Um, but, uh, And so I had started exploring, uh, you know, the arts and, and things that were going on in that region. And so I had come across you and I saw your art and I was like, wow, that's, that's just phenomenal stuff.

[00:13:04] And, and we did, we started chatting and you said you were interested in poetry and I, I sent you some and at the time I was, uh, I know I was writing some, some pretty edgy stuff and it was, I really enjoyed what I was writing at the time. It was, I thought it was pretty cool. And, uh, uh, you took to it as well.

[00:13:26] You thought, you know, I could, I could visually I could, I could put some stuff to this. I could work with this. And I thought, you know what nobody's ever, nobody has ever offered to do that. And I was like, you know what, go for it, do what you will with it. And you did. And it just, it took off. And then. Um, about that time too.

[00:13:49] I think even before that you actually published me in the, in a magazine down there. Yeah. He took some of my columns. You’ve done more for my career than I have, Wes.

[00:14:06] Wesley: [00:14:06] Um, I'll tell you, uh, let me give you more perspective on that time. I published you on Consciousness and the website is very much live we just don’t

[00:14:19] Yeah, both Karabo and my life has gotten totally different directions. We still comrades and we still chat and so on and so on but especially now with covid things have just really changed, but um

[00:14:31] we still get, we still get hits and the website you can still access your work there. But I remember between 2011 say 2009, till about 2012/2011 there. We were, we were pretty cool

[00:14:52] because we could focus a lot on poetry versus like, what else, what else we were publishing. Um, and also the content, like what you were writing about, because, you know, we were more a pan africanist based writing and a lot of the stuff had this revolution element, and I thought, you know try something different for a change, and people took to it. Yeah.

[00:15:26] Mike: [00:15:26] That’s very cool. Thank you very much. 

[00:15:29] Wesley: [00:15:29] okay. Yeah, man. Uh, yeah, the, um, the body of work that we do just to give my listeners some, uh, I guess like, sort of a sketch at that time was also when I started to experiment using poetry in my artwork text, um, like that was 10 years ago. Now it's a completely different level. Yeah, and I use all these, but. There was a, this is sort of where I want to go into your work, because I remember specifically one artwork really really closely and I’ll tell you the image that they used

[00:16:08] um, it was the guy sitting, uh, the guy with a, with a hat, against a wall, and the, the, the, the work was really fucking depressing. It was dark. And I was actually referencing an old photo of a very Um, well know South African artist called Dumile Feni. He died in the USA in about 1919. And I can talk about Feni’s work for a long, long time, but he was really one of my

[00:16:41] Influence in my life. And he was also kind of misunderstood and a bit of a crazy guy. And I, and I, and, and you know, that photo that George Hale took of him and, uh, I use your work on top of it because I remember you were writing really that piece that I was referring to it wasn’t just lonely, but it gave loneliness like, uh, I would say different perspective. Um, do you recall the piece I’m talking about?

[00:17:18] Mike: [00:17:18] I can, I can recall all the, I can recall the art piece, but I can't recall. Pull them off the top of my head wes. I'm. When you tell me how you drew the inspiration to take the poem and wow. I’m floored

[00:17:40] Wesley: [00:17:40] As I looking for, I, I was looking for a long time. I left my fucking job, so to speak.

[00:17:56] Um, I, um, yeah, I mean, I could, I could relate to that piece. Um, yeah,

[00:18:10] but, um, yeah, man, um, that was, uh, that was a lot of fun. 

[00:18:16] Mike: [00:18:16] It was, I, that was a blast. I was so proud of that. I, I was, I was, I was so proud of that. That was. Yeah, that was the highlight. 

[00:18:28] Wesley: [00:18:28] It was absolutely. 

[00:18:30] Mike: [00:18:30] Go take the deepest, darkest pits of my fucking misery, you know, and, and have it out there for everybody to see 

[00:18:40] Wesley: [00:18:40] your work is your work.

[00:18:41] As you said, you sent me a few, a few pieces. Definitely. Probably not last year or the year before that, but I know it was, it was recent enough and you were touching some really dark, really dark places and you were

[00:19:01] Yeah, without like without being over dramatic tell us tell my listeners about that because I know you also suffer from a mental condition, correct?

[00:19:11] Mike: [00:19:11] I have a traumatic brain injury and we're also still trying to figure out  everything else that goes along with that. My brain injury stems from a car accident. Almost 15 years ago. And so, you know, well, everything else that goes along with, with brain injuries, that the emotions, the instability, the anxiety, you know, just trying to learn to channel it.

[00:19:58] Um, yeah, there for a while. Um, I was, I was writing some, some really dark stuff and it got some, I got some pretty good reaction. Um, and then, uh, I found medical marijuana and it's not quite as dark anymore.

[00:20:26] It's a little more, it's a little more out there.

[00:20:34] I'm still out there creating. I don't know what I'm creating, but I'm creating. Wesley: Let me just jump in there because I find that fascinating. Mike: Why not? Wesley: Because I remember at the time Colorado was busy legalising weed, correct?

[00:21:00] Mike: [00:21:00] Colorado was one of the first two states to legalise in America.

[00:21:11] Time at the time. Well, no, this is, this is actually the weed cough.

[00:21:18] Just I had, I had me a good bowl before I came on. Hey, it's legal, you know, what can I say? And it’s my medicine.

[00:21:30] Actually it is, it is.

[00:21:36] Wesley: [00:21:36] yeah tell us about that because I’m fascinated, as I said, um, one thing, one thing I'm very interested in sort of like, you know, nosy work for a little while, because a few of the pieces, as I said was really dark shit and um , I don’t get offended very easily but I was like yo this guy is going there.

[00:21:57] Mike: [00:21:57] So here’s the thing. So I worked in, I worked in law enforcement for 12 years. Right. Um, prior to which now I'm just fucking ashamed of seriously, you know, we'll get into that later. But so, you know, I was, I was taking 15 pills a day.

[00:22:22] Yeah, uh, there for a while. And so my wife and two doctors had to convince me to try medical marijuana, and I finally did, and I'm down to six pills a day.

[00:22:47] Fucking fantastic. You know, all things considered, well, all things considered you know.

[00:22:51] Wesley: [00:22:51] And there’s no side effects?

[00:22:55] Mike: [00:22:55] Well, not as far as I’m concerned

[00:23:10] Wesley: [00:23:10] But I mean if you should weigh your options versus pharmaceuticals versus medical marijuana I think it’s kind of a no brainer. Mike: absolutely.

[00:23:16] I take naps. And I, you know, I still have my down days, you know, I still have days where I feel like shit and I have to, I have to rest, but you know, it's not like before where I was sleeping for, you know, two to three hours every single day, you know, on top of sleeping for, for, you know, 10 to 11 hours at night, you know, I was just, I was not functioning.

[00:23:42] Yeah. So right now I feel fantastic

[00:23:48] Wesley: [00:23:48] Um, do you have, um, I guess

[00:23:54] because you say you were in like that dark place, did it, did it, uh, Does your perception on life change?

[00:24:06] There was a, there was a lot going on man. So how is your outlook on life

[00:24:13] at the moment before we get into the poetry again,

[00:24:19] Mike: [00:24:19] so the day that I got my first COVID shot. Was March 10th and I got a message request on Facebook and you, you know, usually, and you know, as well as I do, it's usually like a spam, hot stuff, you know?

[00:24:49] And I, I look at it and of course it's a female and I'm like, oh boy. And I open it up. Then it's like, hi, Michael. You know,